Andy Routsis: September 2009 Archives

In a recent e-mail, I received this question from one of our customers...

Jim M.
Regarding cushion, regardless of dynamic check ring tests (e.g. get 1.3%) if the machine will not hold a cushion, should the culprit be repaired?

For example, the gate freeze test shows 7 seconds & the hold time is set to 8s.   When I transfer over to pack stage, the screw drifts about .020" during that time.  Is that an OK scenario, or is zero drift the answer?  If I put the pack time at 20s, the part still looks good, but screw keeps slowly moving & doesn't stop.

My Response
Every check ring drifts. Tests such as the Dynamic Check Ring Repeatability Test test consistency during fill. A 1.3% variation implies that your check ring is wearing very evenly and your process should remain consistent. If the amount of drift makes you uncomfortable, it may be time to inspect and/or replace. But, a long as the drift is consistent, you should be able to maintain a robust process.

Additional Thoughts
There are a variety of check ring designs available to the molding industry... and all of them leak. A properly functioning check ring will leak consistently. If you are running a material with a very low viscosity, you may want to ensure the check ring you are using is appropriate to the applicaton and properly sized for your barrel.

-Andy
I received this common question via e-mail the other day...

MJ
I heard that it's good to have shot size from 20 to 80 percent of the machine’s available shot size. Has this conclusion was tested, or has somebody published a white paper study?

My Response
Although I am not familiar with studies to validate this specific conclusion, but you can find studies on many of the aspects which contribute to this general rule of thumb. I can give a good argument to support both the 80% and 20% limits. Even more important... is the fact that you can easily generate your own data to validate/test any of these arguments with your specific processes.

80% - This rule of thumb is provided to give a buffer to allow for process variation for a couple compounding reasons... (1) A good cushion should be between 5-10% of the overall shot size. (2) Many machines require 2-5% of the shot size to decompress the screw after recovery. (3) The check ring will typically vary 2-5% during fill resulting in a similar variation in cushion size. When you add these variations up, you need a 10-20% buffer to help ensure you can properly fill the part.

20% - The typical general purpose screw contains approximately 1-2 shots of material within the flights of the screw. This means that a process running at 50% capacity will have an estimated barrel residence time between (2) and (4) * (cycle time). Likewise, a machine running at 20% capacity has an approximate residence time between (5) and (10) * (cycle time). If you bring this to the extreme, a process running at 5% capacity could have a barrel residence between 2000% and 4000% of the cycle time!

These are rules of thumb, and therefor there are always exceptions. With the use of Accurate process controls and short travel check rings, you may be able to violate the 80% rule. I never recommend violating the 20% rule as it is likely to affect the part quality, process stability, and it will waste a large amount of energy.

Additional Thoughts
Unlike most manufacturing processes, the compressibility and shear thinning characteristics of plastics cause inherent variability in the process.

-Andy
In a recent webinar regarding Process Documentation, I received this question regarding process controls...

Frank
During an In-Mold Rheology Test, should we use the closed loop or open loop option on our machines? What is the difference?

note: For those new to the industry, open loop process control uses a set pressure to force polymer into the mold during first stage injection - adversely, closed loop control uses a velocity setpoint to control the filling of the mold.

My Response
Obviously, if your molding machine is limited to open-loop control, the you can perform the test, but make a note regarding the process control type. Since the screw speed drops as the mold fills, the apparent shear rate you calculate is less accurate since it represents an average of the shear the polymer encounters.

A more realistic representation of apparent shear rate the polymer encounters results from closed loop process control. This is because the screw speed is controlled, representing a more realistic picture of the shear thinning behavior of the polymer. This also gives you much more control over the process over the long term since changes in material viscosity will cause virtually no change to the first stage fill time.

Additional Thoughts
There are some advancements in machine technology which have little to no benefit, these include: back pressure profiling, hold pressure profiling, and cushion control. On the other hand, closed loop process control for 1st stage mold filling is one of the most beneficial advances in injection molding technology over the past 50 years.

For free multimedia presentations on process documentation including in-mold rheology, please visit: http://www.traininteractive.com/free/webinar/player/

-Andy
A. Routsis Associates, Inc. was recently featured in a great Modern Plastics article by Clare Goldsberry entitled 'Want good products and processes? Train good employees'.

In this article, she discusses how companies such as Molded Rubber & Plastics Corp. in Butler, WI improve their workforce through employee training at all levels from management to operator. In this article, Mike Dalton, director of quality for MRPC states “Basically, we’re only as good as our worst operator, so we carefully screen employees prior to hiring and then screen them during a 60-day training and orientation period.”

In this article, I discussed the right way for a company to train. “If they do the training the wrong way, it’s a disaster,” he says, noting that some companies give the training responsibility to the “lowest guy on the totem pole. Training has to be from the top down.”

Ultimately, the companies that succeed in both the upswings and downturns are those who have an in-house employee advancement system in-place to ensure your workforce is capable and flexible to handle the future. One, two, and three week seminars can help introduce new technologies to your employees, but real change occurs when learning is continuous, ongoing, and relevant to what your company does.

To read this article, visit:

-Andy

I got this intriguing question the other day...

Jim
I am working with a part - family mould 1 + 1.  Here’s the scoop:

Projected Area:              89.75 “^2
Hold Pressure:               950 psi hyd.
Intensification ratio:        13.36
Plastic Pressure:           12,692 psi
Force:                           89.75 X 12,692 = 1,139,107 lbs.
Tonnage:                       1,139,107 lbs. / 2000 lbs./ton = 569T.

The tech guide says use 3.2T/in^2 = 3.2 X 89.75 = 287.2T.

The job was quoted in a 300T, and we run in 300T.

I would say, by theory, the plastic pressure based on hold pressure would be best calculation, but apparently not.  I don’t understand why.  It should be more accurate than the general rules of thumb that I've seen, based on part wall thickness etc. Any thoughts?

My Answer
The design guides are actually great references, since they generalize the pressure losses in the runner and sprue.

This would be a great time to perform a pressure loss study to really get detailed numbers.

In such a study, you perform a series of short shots through the air, sprue, gates, and then short shot the cavity.

The peak pressures at each stage in the process should be recorded.

So, for example…
air: 2000psi
sprue: 3000psi
gates: 4000psi
short shot: 12000psi
(12000psi) - (4000psi) = 8000psi pressure applied to mold cavity

In this simplified case, only 2/3 of the applied pressure, (8000psi) / (12000psi) = 2/3 reaches the mold cavity. In this case, I would apply this 2/3 factor to the overall packing pressure. So if the packing pressure was 6000psi, I would calculate the tonnage using (6000psi) x (2/3) = 4000psi. This would actually provide a fudge factor since some pressure is lost within the mold cavity due to a pressure differential across the mold cavity.

Additional Thoughts
In your case, you most likely have a restrictive nozzle, runner and/or gates, as well as an older machine which may not be transferring all the pressure to the front of the screw. Additionally, family molds tend to have large runner configurations in which the flow to one cavity is often restricted… resulting in even less pressure applied to one of the two mold cavities.

-Andy

Weld Lines vs. Meld Lines

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In a recent conversation, I got this age old processing question...

George
Some of my techs call them weld lines, some call them meld lines... what is the difference?

My Response
Both Weld and Meld Lines occur where melt fronts intersect, yet they are different...

Weld Lines are formed when two melt fronts meet with little or no flow afterwards.

Meld Lines are formed when a melt front is divided by a mold feature, such as a core pin, and then meets afterward to continue flowing. Meld lines tend to be much stronger with better appearance.

The strength and appearance is directly affected by the molecular interaction and gas removal at the point of melt front intersection. 

Additional Thoughts
Many part designers will manipulate the part design and gate location to transform weld lines into meld lines. Additionally, in rare cases, you can adjust injection speeds to alter the formation of weld and meld lines.

-Andy
In a recent discussion with a brand new customer, when discussing common defects he posed this query...

Steve K.
Although we don't really have one or two defects we get all the time, but we get a lot of different defects all the time. We run a lot of different molds, machines, and materials... and we change a lot of molds. Do you think that might have anything to do with it?

My Response
After a few pointed questions, Steve explained that his employees only documented the machine settings during start-up. Although this is very common in the injeciton molding industry, the process settings of one machine provide virtually no guidance when the mold is hung in a different machine. Even using the same barrel temperatures can result in melt tempertaure differences in excess of 50ºF! 

We went on to discuss the importance of machine independent documentation that includes part specific data such as part weight, fill time, coolant and melt tempertaures as well as the actual pressures applied to the polymer. We also strategized methods to get Steve's employees to adjust their behaviors over the long term.

Additional Thoughts
Even though Steve had some good employee working for him, every time they put a mold into a machine, they put the data into the machine. When the part does not magically come out right... the have to process without a set of machine independant targets to aim for.

If the mold ran great in machine #4 last week you need to know specific details such as: Fill Time = 3.2 seconds, Melt Temperature = 427ºF, Final Part Weight = 23.5 grams. This information is invaluable when you put the mold in machine #3 next week.

If you or anyone you work with would like to learn more about process documentation... we have some FREE multimedia webinars on scientific molding which can be viewed at http://www.traininteractive.com/free/webinar/player/

-Andy
In a recent webinar regarding Scientific Molding, I received this question...

Ralph
Is scientific molding applicable to high speed packaging machine where injection fill time and hold time are around 0.5s with an overall cycle time of 3sec?

My Response
Yes, you should always approach processing logically and document the process by its outputs... especially in your case, where any change in your process is virtually imperceptible to the human eye. Such changes can only be identified through the accurate measurement and proper documentation.

Additional Thoughts
Although every process seems unique, all injection molding processes operate under similar principles. There is a 1st stage fill time, 2nd stage pack time, final part weight, melt temperature, etc. All these factors are imperative in ensuring a process can be consistently repeated. For free multimedia presentations on scientific molding, please visit: http://www.traininteractive.com/free/webinar/player/

-Andy
I was asked this great question the other day...

eMailer
I heard something about machine response (reaction time during switching from fill to hold).

How does this response influence my process?

My Response
There are many aspects which must be considered when reviewing the transfer from 1st to 2nd stage. Most of these can be seen on your machine's pressure curve.

Under-Damping:
- As the injection pressure graph transitions from first to second stage, the curve should not dip far below the specified packing pressure. If this occurs, the molding machine is ‘under damped’ and is not capable of transferring from velocity control to pressure control without losing significant pressure. Under damping often results in sinks and short shots due to insufficient packing pressure. This only occurs when molding with hydraulic machines, and indicates a faulty hydraulic valve.

Over Damping:
- If the pressure curve transfers between stages gradually, the molding machine is ‘over damped’. This indicates that additional material is being forced into the mold at a pressure higher than the set point. An ‘over damped’ molding machine will often result in flash or overpacking due to the fact that the hydraulic valve can not transition into pressure control adequately. The controller may need to reprogrammed or a hydraulic valve may need replacement to resolve ‘over damping’.

Overshoot:
- Similar to over-damping, many machines have heavy injection units which are difficult to slow down when the machine transfers from 1st to 2nd stage. This can often cause inconsistent fill. Although most electric molding machines have accurate servo motor controls which prevent this, many hydraulic molding machines are very susceptible to this situation. On these machines, it is a great idea to use one or two transitional speeds to prevent this condition.

Fluttering:
- Fluttering or erratic changes within the injection pressure curve during transfer indicate faulty hydraulic valves or electric servo motors. These fluctuations, as with the other conditions above, affect shot-to-shot consistency and should be improved to the best of the machine's capabilities.

Additional Thoughts
You should always evaluate the capabilities of your molding machines with rigorous testing. This is another reason why machine-independent process documentation is so important... process outputs tend to ignore the idiosyncratic behavior of any individual machine.

-Andy
I was recently asked about the effectiveness of reading materials...

Chris
We receive several monthly periodicals at our plant, and my manager asked me why these cannot be used for training... I know this won't work, but I don't know how to explain this to him.

Can you help me understand why this is so?

My Response
Just because something provides good information does not always mean it is an effective training method. Reading does not provide particularly high retention rates: meaning that you’re likely to forget most of what you’ve read!

Studies have shown that most people can only remember about 20% of what they read. This retention drops even lower when the reader is unfamiliar with the topic, making it particularly ineffective when training new hires or inexperienced personnel.

Certain factors can increase retention of what’s being read, such as an emotional connection with the information. As much as we’d all like employees to be passionate about plastics, it is unrealistic to expect them to react emotionally to what is usually pretty dry reading material.

Additional Thoughts
I always recommend plants have such periodicals to their employees since these periodicals can be great tools when trying to introduce someone to a new featured technology.

-Andy

In a recent webinar on the topic of Scientific Molding, I received this question regarding process outputs...

Vishu
In a scientific injection molding process, can we change process inputs while maintaining the same outputs?

My Response
There are many cases where a change in the inputs may have little or no affect on the actual process... For example, if the process was pressure limited, a change in the injection speed will have no affect on the process. This is why the process inputs are significantly less important than the resulting process outputs.

Additional Thoughts
To illustrate this with another example... if your process has too much screw speed and back pressure, a ten degree drop in barrel temperature may not have the desired effect on the melt temperature. If you concentrated on the melt tempertaure instead, you would know how each change directly affects the melt temperature.  

Both of these scenerios relate specifically to why documentation of process outputs is critical. For free multimedia presentations on scientific molding, please visit: http://www.traininteractive.com/free/webinar/player/

-Andy

Minimum Mold Sizing

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Someone was preparing for some in-house training, and asked me this important question...

Marcel
We are selecting a mold for training. I have a mold in house, however the size of the mold base is 8" x 8". I know the manual suggests a mold base minimum of 17" x 17" under full tonnage. Can this mold be used for training if it is not under full tonnage?

My Response
Although every situation is different… as a general rule, you do not want to use a mold which uses less than 2/3 of the space within the tie bars. For example, if the horizontal spacing between the tie bars is 18 inches and the vertical spacing between the tie bars is 12 inches… then the minimum mold size should be 12w x 8h.

If you go below this value, the force is will be concentrated on the center of the platen. The factor is not the amount of tonnage being used, but the centralization of force. Since the platens are cast, they do can be deformed very easily… a mold which is too small will quickly increase the concavity of the stationary platen, and possibly damage the movable platen as well.

Additional Thoughts
A bolster plate can also be added to the mold to provide additional support and distribute the force more evenly across the platen. This plate bolts to the clamping plate and extends beyond the mold base; thus increasing its effective size. In some cases, bolster plates can be as much as nine inches thick and can extend beyond the mold base by as much as twelve inches.

-Andy
As a response to the Fill Time, Viscosity & Molding Economics blog I received this question...

E-Mailer
With respect to a in-mold rheology test, why should we choose to process on the right-hand side of the curve?

My Response
As the shear rate, or flow rate, of the polymer increases... the viscosity decreases. This rheological behavior is unique to polymers and is called ‘shear thinning’.

When graphing this, viscosity is plotted on the vertical, ‘Y axis’ and shear rate is plotted on the horizontal, ‘X axis’. Shear thinning will appear as a steep decline in the viscosity of the polymer as the shear rate increases.

Once most of the shear thinning occurs the polymer’s viscosity starts to level out. After this point, the viscosity will remain relatively consistent - resulting in a more stable process. For this reason, you should process on the right hand side of the curve.

Additional Thoughts
You can learn more about this test and other aspects of scientific molding if you participate in our free online webinars.

-Andy
I received this question from a frequent blog contributor, and believe it makes a good discussion on decoupled processes...

Milan
On some of our machines, we can adjust the hold velocity. How should this feature be used when molding a decoupled II process.

My Response
Before I respond, I want to relate the general attributes of this process:

  • A process that uses one injection speed to fill - whenever possible
  • The mold fills 95 to 98 percent full during first stage
  • All cavities are short shot during first stage
  • First stage fill is velocity-controlled and not pressure limited
  • Second stage pack is pressure-controller and not velocity limited
  • Process uses only 20 to 80 percent of the machine’s available shot size
  • The final cushion is approximately 10 percent of the overall shot size
In essence, the purpose of a DII process is to 'decouple', or separate, velocity controlled fill from pressure controlled pack. To do this, you should either turn the velocity control off so the pressure control takes prominence.

Additional Thoughts
Always make sure you understand the specific controls on your machines. In some cases, the 2nd stage velocity is actually a limit rather than an actual setting. In this case, you should set the speed near the maximum so that 2nd stage pack does not become velocity-limited.

-Andy

About this Archive

This page is an archive of recent entries written by Andy Routsis in September 2009.

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