Andy Routsis: November 2009 Archives

I received this question over the weekend...

Milan
I heard about the platen deflection test. How should I do it and what information can I obtain from the test?

My Response
Most platen deflection occurs within the stationary platen due to the fact that it receives the least amount of support. It also has a large hole cut out of the center for the sprue bushing.

There are typically two different instances in which deflection of the stationary platen occurs. The first deflection happens when the mold is clamped under full tonnage. The second deflection takes place as the polymer is injected and packed into the mold.

The Platen Deflection Test is used to determine the amount of stationary platen deflection that occurs during the molding cycle. Basically, a dial indicator mounted to the machine base, and is placed as close to the center of the platen as possible.

The results of this test should be retained with the machine’s records and used as a baseline for future deflection comparisons. This is valuable information - as it allows you to track the degradation of the stationary platen’s integrity over time.

Additional Thoughts
You can often reduce platen deflection by increasing the nozzle forward force.

Our intelligent molder series of training covers this topic in much more detail. Also I discuss these tests in our free online webinars: http://www.traininteractive.com/free/webinar/player/

-Andy
A friend asked my opinion about the state of hydraulic molding machines the other day...

Bob
When do you think hydraulic molding machines will go the way of the dinosaurs?

My Response
In my experience, the plastics industry is relatively slow to adopt the latest technology. Four of the biggest factors in adopting a new technology are:

1) Significant Increase in Performance
2) Demonstrated Reliability
3) Ease of Use
4) Lower Cost

As you may know, the earliest all-electric molding machines were very delicate, and did not provide significant value. As the years have progressed, and technology has improved... these machines have begun to outperform hydraulic machines in virtually all these four areas. It is only a matter of time before all-electric molding machines have dominance in all demographics of the injection molding industry... especially as the costs of all-electric molding machines decrease far below the cost of hydraulic machines.

That being said, there will always be injection molders who will prefer to mold with hydraulic molding machines... or have older machines which are still functioning properly. I recently spoke with one molder who said 'I hate electric machines, they are so quiet it just doesn't sound busy around here'.

Additional Thoughts
I have watched the slow adoption of closed-loop process controls over the past few decades. At first, the controls were confusing, complicated, unreliable, and very expensive. Now this technology dominates the market... yet, there are still manufacturers who will sell you a brand-new injection molding machine with an old-fashioned open-loop process controller ~ if you really want one.

-Andy

I just received this inquiry regarding electric molding machines...

Henry
Our processes typically run over 1 minute cycles and are considering the purchase of some new molding machines. We are being told that an all-electric molding machine will still save us money in energy, is that true? Would a hybrid electric-hydraulic machine be a better investment?

My Response
There are a couple general misconception regarding the benefits of all-electric molding machines...

Misconception #1 ~ All-electric molding machines will not save you money if you have a long cycle time. The truth is... The pump runs constantly on a hydraulic machine wasting energy, and causing component wear. Electric molding machine components do not run when they are not being used saving electricity and wear during idle moments.

Misconception #2 ~ For long cycle times... hybrid machines provide virtually the same energy savings as electric molding machines; since most of the energy is consumed during screw recovery. The truth is... As with #1, the cost and wear associated with running the pump during idle times will usually outweigh the initial savings during the purchase of the machine.

I recently visited a molder who purchased both a hybrid and an all-electric molding machine to compare their performance and energy savings side by side. Both machines ran the same mold and had processes with cycle times over two minutes. He claimed that he could throw away the hybrid machine, buy another electric molding machine, and still pay for both machines in less than four years just from the energy savings. This sounds extreme... buy it demonstrates the money you can save by thinking long term.

Additional Thoughts
The costs savings for long cycle times is part of the reason machine manufacturers are being pressured to build larger and larger all-electric molding machines.

-Andy


I just received this request...

Larry
We know the importance of using the proper melt temp.  Is it worth the extra money to get a meter and one of the “needle probes” from a supplier like EDL?

My Response
The thin probe is the best method. You do not have to preheat it… and the reading is very fast. Wire probes tend to be too brittle for the production environment, while the newer thin probes are much hardier.

If you want to save a few bucks, you can usually skip the extension cable and plug the probe straight into the meter. Personally, I use the probe that way because I can take the reading with one hand.

Additional Thoughts
Although there are a variety of styles, the probe adapters are pretty consistent... so you can usually plug a new probe into an older meter.

-Andy
This question recently found my inbox...

Jason
We are getting some new electric molding machines... are there any unique safety concerns we should consider?

My Response
In most respects, electric molding machines are much safer. There are no pressurized fluids, less noise, and fewer sources of potential energy.

The big difference will be in the safety switches... the machine is likely to have more electrical safety interlocks on both the front and back gates.

You should be able to incorporate this into your general safety training program.

Additional Thoughts
Since the electric molding machine components only make noise when they are in motion, the machine can seem 'off' when it is actually running.

You can easily incorporate this concern into your in-house safety training program as well.

-Andy

80-20 Rule Revisited

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Over the past week, I have received a few follow-up questions regarding the 20% rule for barrel capacity.

In a previous blog entitled The 80-20 Rule For Available Shot Size I discussed the importance of processing parts where the shot size falls between 20 and 80 percent of the overall shot size capacity.

The questions all revolve around ways to get around the issues of processing shot sizes below 20% of the shot size. A typical questions is 'Is possible to have a process control with this type of problem?' 'Are we going to be able to have shot to shot consistency?' 'I suddenly encounter shorts or flash without any warning... could this be the cause?' 'We are considering better process controls... will this help?' 'We have to purge the barrel often... might this be the cause?'

I have addresses these individually... but would also like to address this in general terms.

My Concerns
Basically... when you process at 20% barrel capacity, you typically have 5-10 cycles of material in your barrel. If you use 10% capacity, you have will generally have 10-20 cycles of material in your barrel. Likewise, 5% capacity jumps it up to 20-40 cycles. This means that the material will cook, breakdown, and degrade while sitting in the barrel.

Additionally, each time the screw moves forward to inject... you cause additional mixing amd material migration within and over the screw flights. This will cause an increase in the residence time distribution. This means that if you put a pellet of colorant in your barrel, the time form when you start seeing the color, to the time you stop seeing the color increases.

With the increases in both residence time and residence time distribution... you significantly increase the risks associated with degradation, viscosity variations, mechanical property loss, as well as all the related part defects that occur.

A good way to see your property losses would be to mold some parts with virgin material record the peak pressure during first stage as well as perform some mechanical tests on the parts. After this, regrind the parts, mold the parts again and compare the loss in peak pressure as well as the loss in mechanical properties. Most materials will exhibit 5-10% property loss when processed properly.

Additional Thoughts
There are also other factors which affect the stability of the process... but those are the two biggest when you are processing with an over-sized molding machine.

-Andy




Measuring Mold Temperature

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A customer recently asked this question regarding mold temperature...

John
What is the best method for measuring mold temperature? Should I trust the thermolator measurement?

My Response
When measuring mold temperature, it is actually best to measure these two factors... coolant temperature into the controller and coolant temperature out of the controller. If these are documented when the process is molding acceptable parts, then you can better replicate the conditions in the future.

These measurements should be taken using a surface probe in contact with the in and out connectors of the temperature controller.

The return temperature provides a good indication of the mold temperature. The difference between these two numbers provides a good indication of cooling effectiveness. Higher differences may indicate a poor coolant flow, while a low difference may indicate a too much coolant... or an improperly connected coolant line.

Some molders use the thermolator measurements with good success... but these measurements should be calibrated and verified often with a pyrometer with a surface contact probe.

Additional Thoughts
Mold surface temperature measurements can be helpful, but do not provide relevant data about the overall effectiveness of the mold temperature controller.

-Andy
I received a strange e-mail the other day...

eMailer
When do I stop employee training?

My Response
Unless your plant has reached all of its profits-based goals, every employee on the payroll can improve some aspect of their job function, be more efficient, or expand their capabilities.

Some companies use a strategy where every employee has to be either trained or training to advance. This is aggressive... but such companies are best poised to handle expansion... or downsizing. 

There are always opportunities for your employees to learn... and for them to learn from each other.

Additional Thoughts
I have been to companies with advancement policies which require each employee to be actively training someone else to to their job function. Failure to do so can result in them being disciplined or even fired.

-Andy
I often work with companies, such as the one I visited recently, who have two very common molding defects...

Quality Manager
The most common defects we encounter are flash and short shots. I would think that these two defects would be complete opposites, so why do we always see both?

My Response
I agree that these two defects sound mutually exclusive... the part has too much material with flash, and too little material with short shots. Surprisingly, when these two defects are seen together... it often indicates a poorly established fill, and I'll explain why.

When establishing a molding process... If the part is completely full during first stage, then the process cannot compensate for variability. A drop in material viscosity will cause too much material to enter the mold during fill, causing flash. A rise in material viscosity will cause too little material to enter the mold cavity, causing shorts. 

When the process is established with a short, then 2nd stage pack is used to fill out the part. any typical variation in viscosity during fill will then be compensated by pack.

Additional Thoughts
The most solid and reliable processes are short during first stage fill... and then packed out during second stage.

-Andy

I received a unique tooling question the other day...

Rachael
I am considering the option of purchasing pre-loaded ball bearing bushings for a new tool. Are there any drawbacks to this option?

My Response
Such bushings are a great option for the longevity of your tooling. These demonstrate significantly less wear when compared to regular brass or steel bushings.

The only drawback to this option would be with your tooling maintenance department. If they have not used such a system, they should communicate with the manufacturer to ensure they understand the operation and maintenance of such bushing systems.

Additional Thoughts
I always recommend spending a little extra money for the better leader pin bushings. The price might be a little higher, but the long term value far outweighs the initial cost.

-Andy
I got this question regarding a situation many small-part molders find themselves in...

Arturo
Our Maintenance crew came up with the idea of putting E-Dart systems on our presses. Some of our presses are running with less than 20% barrel capacity. What do you think about this plan without any change in the barrel capacity.

My Response
Regarding eDart Technology... Let me explain a few points for my readers.  In my experience, such technology is best implemented for one of two reasons... 1) to detect and isolate specific part defects such as short shots. 2) to accurately control the transfer from 2nd stage pack to 3rd stage hold using cavity pressure measurements. In both these situations, the mold must be properly instrumented with pressure sensing technology... and your employees need to be trained on the use of such technology before implementation. The learning curve for this technology is steep... so be sure that all your employees have a firm grasp on the fundamentals first.

Regarding Your Question... Based on your line of questioning, my assumption is that you are asking if the eDart will help compensate for the complications arising from running less than 20% machine capacity. A machine running below 20% capacity typically has a residence time of 10 cycles or more. For this reason, the inherent complications resulting from a long residence time such as degradation, property loss, and presence of volatiles will not be affected.

If these were my machines, I would invest in new screws and barrels for the machines before I bought anything else. My approach to technology is as follows... Don't purchase the latest and greatest until you are 100% sure that 1) your employees are getting the most out of the your equipment, and 2) it will make a significant difference.

With your improperly sized screw and barrel... It is like putting a turbo charger on a car which has a flat tire.

Additional Thoughts
For more information on proper barrel sizing, please read the following entry:

-Andy


Scheduling OJT

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I was talking with a Human Resource Manager the other day and got this question...

Frank
My boss wants me to do all the training on-the-job. Unfortunately, this is a scheduling nightmare. What is the best way to do this?

My Response
First, OJT is the most direct method of instruction, but it is not a good training tool. Scheduling is dependant on both the trainer and trainee... requiring equal time spent by each. Ultimately, this training by itself will teach the minimum behaviors necessary to perform their job function.

You should consider using a blended learning model which minimizes and focuses the on-the-job training as a component of an entire employee development initiative.

Additional Thoughts
I know it seems as though I side-stepped the question... but I really believe Frank could not get all his goals accomplished, regardless of how he approached scheduling.

-Andy
I just received this unique question from a toolmaker in China...

Dodge
We’re trying to make a collapsible core with threads using a CNC lathe.  The specification requires the thread start at half way around the circumference, which is impossible because the lathes have to complete a full circle before making a screw thread.  Is my team wrong on this?  If not what kind of machinery would we need?  We thought about a screw grinder but the part is too big, overall length is 11.25inch.

My Response
Although CNC lathes are typically used to machine threads in typical machining situations... they are not commonly used for machining threads on injection molds. This is especially true for applications, such as yours, where specific thread positions are required.

The most common method of machining such threads is CNC Electric discharge machining (EDM). In such a machining method, a conductive electrode with inverted detail is manufactured using CNC machining processes. This electrode is then placed into the EDM machine and the detail is removed, or burned, from the tool steel using an electric spark between the electrode and the workpiece.

For more information into the EDM manufacturing process... please visit wikipedia:

If you have access to a 4 axis CNC EDM machine, you can create even better threads by rotating the electrode about the core as it moves up or down. This may create more accurate thread detail on the core.

For training on this topic, consider our Mold Design and Mold Making Series.

Additional Thoughts
Mold makers have also used 5-axis CNC machining stations to create this type of detail... but the setup and expense of using such equipment for such a small task is generally not justified.

-Andy
I received this e-mail from a medical molder who is encountering complications with maintaining process controls within their validated standards...

Steve
We a medical molder and monitor and record part weight as a control during production runs. On a particular component the spec is 31.165g +/- 0.045g on a 16 cavity mould and was determined from one validation run. Unfortunately, we are continually having to adjust the 'Holding Pressure' to stay within the tolerance and sometimes are having to set a value outside of our verified limits. These adjustments are made at the start of each production run and are generally ok for that run or batch of material. The rest of the process parameters are set to validated point conditions and are identical from run to run.

My question is whether weight is a valid method of control with such tight tolerances and what could cause the weight fluctuation if identical point conditions are used for each run?

Note: After a few follow-up questions it was determined that the part is full during first stage, and changes cannot be made to the shot size, transfer position, or fill time.

My Response
The short answer is... yes, weight can be a great way to control tolerances for a molded part.

Unfortunately, the root of your problem is the fact that the part is completely full during first stage, so the process cannot properly compensate for material variation. In this situation, you must fill the mold completely during first stage to meet the validation requirements. Even with sinks, you are actually packing the part during first stage fill. Since most materials will exhibit viscosity variations of approximately 5-10%... the degree of packing that occurs during first stage fill will vary greatly with material variation. These variations can result from machine changes, ambient temperature changes, humidity changes, as well as the obvious variations in the material.

In the long run, it is much more beneficial to establish a process by separating fill from pack. Filling with a short shot during first stage... and packing out the part during second stage will allow the part to fill a little more or less during first stage. completing fill and packing the out during the second stage will ensure velocity is not being used to perform the packing duties.

In your current process... you have a slight tolerance in your process, and I suggest you do your best to slightly increase the amount of material that enters the mold during fill when the weight is low, and slightly reduce that amount when the part is heavy.

Additional Thoughts
In the long term, you should also try to focus on documenting and validating more process outputs rather than process inputs. When you validate all your process inputs, as well as all your process outputs... you eliminate all your opportunities to compensate for material variation.

-Andy

Blog Archives

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Hello Readers,

Our 'Plastics Training and Technology Blog' has been active for less than 6 months... yet, we have had thousands of readers and more than a hundred contributions in both questions and comments.

Here at A. Routsis Associates, Inc. we like to thank all of our readers and contributors for their support... but also mention that there are great blog entries in our archives many of the more recent readers may have missed...

A few of the popular archived entries are listed below:


You can also use the search tool on the upper right-hand corner to see if we discussed any topics of interest to you.

As always, feel free to e-mail me at blog@traininteractive.com with any topics that you would like me to address.

-Andy
I just received this interesting question yesterday from a medical molder...

AP
We are planning to change screw size because we are using less than 20% of the shot size capacity of the press, can you give us a little information how this problem affect our process control and how big is the impact on it if we change the screw size to have it in the advised range please? Also if we change the screw and barrel size do we need to make a lot of modifications to our electric molding machine?

My Response
First, I just wanted to re-iterate the comments I made in a previously blog entitled 'The 80-20 Rule For Available Shot Size'.

20% - The typical general purpose screw contains approximately 1-2 shots of material within the flights of the screw. This means that a process running at 50% capacity will have an estimated barrel residence time between (2) and (4) * (cycle time). Likewise, a machine running at 20% capacity has an approximate residence time between (5) and (10) * (cycle time). If you bring this to the extreme, a process running at 5% capacity could have a barrel residence between 2000% and 4000% of the cycle time!

As a medical molder, you can create some potential liability since the residence time will be so high relative to the process. This also creates variability in the melt quality due to longer residence time distributions and very small cushions relative to size of the machine.

When you upgrade to the smaller screw... the biggest changes will be in the melt temperature and shear rate during screw recovery. I strongly recommend taking a melt temperature measurement during the current configuration so that you can better match it after the change. To match the shear during screw recovery, you may want to determine the circumferential speed used during screw recovery so that it can be matched on the new barrel. To calculate this, multiply the RPM times the screw diameter times pi... (RPM)x(d)x(π).

A little more about this topic is discussed on my post entitled 'The Affect Of Screw Diameter On Shear Rate'.

As with most processes, you should do your best to match the process outputs such as fill time and melt temperature.

Since the machine is electric, you will have to work with the manufacturer to adjust the settings to ensure the proper plastic pressure is reported on the controller.

Additional Thoughts
You are very likely to encounter a more solid and reliable process with the new configuration... plus you will significantly reduce risks associated with higher residence times and residence time distributions.

-Andy
I just received this question regarding adding insulation between the mold and the platens...

Milan

I want ask you if it is a good to put plate between mold and machine platen? Some technician told me yes, cause you need isolate warm mold from cold platen.

My Response
Just to clarify for our readers... many injection molders will position insulation plates between the A and B clamping plates and the stationary and movable machine platens. The purpose of these plates are two fold... (1) to prevent the machine platen from influencing the heating and cooling of the two mold halves in an attempt to stabilize mold tempertaure. (2) to reduce the heating and expansion of the platens... which may affect mold safety on larger machines and clamp tonnage on toggle machines. Over time, this can also affect the squareness of the molding machine.

Most processes can benefit from these plates as they tend to eliminate variables in the process and reduce machine maintenance. There are two ways to go about adding insulation plates to the molds.

Wrong Way - Many injection molders solve these problems with generic plates they just wedge between the mold and the platen during setup. I am not in favor of these plates as they get damaged easily and can shift during production. If they get damaged, they can apply uneven clamp tonnage which will affect part quality and platen alignment. If the plate shifts, you can create a serious risk to both your employees and your equipment.

Right Way - Such plates should be individually fitted and bolted to both the A and B half of each mold. This approach will help prevent damage to the insulation, and ensure consistent performance in the application. This may seem like an expensive option initially, but the reduction in die setting time and uniformity of clamp tonnage should outweigh the initial expense.

Additional Thoughts
These systems most benefit anyone operating a hot runner system, hot sprue, or high-temperature molding application with oil-coolant will benefit from an insulation plate between the clmap plates and the platens.

-Andy





I believe many companies underestimate the importance of housekeeping...

George
My technicians keep telling me that custom-molding facilities are always somewhat messy due to the high number of mold changes. How do I argue against this?

My Response
George, your techs are pulling your leg just to defend their laziness... though many injection molding plants do not emphasize cleanliness and organization.

Good housekeeping will reduce the time it requires to find things and get things accomplished. A systematic and organized workplace is a safer workplace which is much safer, more productive, more efficient, and more profitable working environment.

This is true across the board, whether you are molding containers, heart valves, lawn chairs, or pipe fillings.

Additional Thoughts
Ultimately, the efficiency of an injection molding plant is highly dependent on its cleanliness and organization.

You should approach cleanliness through plant-wide initiatives, employee training, and by personal example.

-Andy

About this Archive

This page is an archive of recent entries written by Andy Routsis in November 2009.

Andy Routsis: October 2009 is the previous archive.

Andy Routsis: December 2009 is the next archive.

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